After Sessions, Before Sessions


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    thanks all for a sweet 2 hours.

    tinychat held up MUCH less glitchier than my wildest expectations.

    lots to mull and throw out there, including nanofortran3′s question “any ideas to try that could require coordinated effort in a different or this context?”

    Key Master

    My in/output recordings of the first Supraconductor working group meeting for the pre-GLI.TC/H 2112 Supraconductor thread, facilitated by threadleaders Kyoung Kim, Ryan ⊥ Dunn and Edwina Portocarrero.

    Supraconductivity: the experimentation and exploration of telepresent communication (this time through Tinychat) with all its glitches. With as aim to explore the creative potentials of these wares above and beyond their prescribed, singular purpose of channeling.

    More info:


    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by rosa_menkman rosa_menkman.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by rosa_menkman rosa_menkman.
    Key Master

    BTW I enjoyed it!!

    Am curious about future orchestrations, different platforms, less pain, etc ; )

    Does there need to be a start? Maybe not?

    A goal for the specific iteration?

    certain instruments attached?

    <3 Oprosah


    Ryan ⊥ Dunn

    LOL nanofortran3 was me. — yes, I’d like to have some discretely (not discreetly) communicated ideas about possible experiments that could require preparation. Jamming was really great for generating some interesting ideas, and it would be fabulous if we can all talk about some of the moments we found most intriguing, other ways to contextualize the experience in tinychat and other telepresent formats, and methods by which we can explore and exploit the medium to the end of total acceptance. Zen Buddhist Telecommunications Inc.


    Ryan ⊥ Dunn

    BTW, I just posted a ‘capture’ of the event in the Documentation thread for review and those who missed it!



    Yeah, that wasn’t me:

    “any ideas to try that could require coordinated effort in a different or this context?”

    Agreed.  Form is always an option.  Thanks for the soundcloud document, it’s nice to sit back and take it all in as a complete thing.

    As far as coordination, you could begin to look at a score of some type, it doesn’t even need to be written down (like a visual score), but just an agreed upon set of events.  So, Cage comes to mind, re your Zen Buddhist Telecommunications idea.

    What I though was interesting was that some of us went to written text for communication when the noise floor prevented spoken word(s). (That is, you wrote words down on a pad of paper and put them up to the camera.)  If we could come up with some visual cues to coordinate effort (I’ve got a hat on now, so I am doing a ‘solo’, I am no longer in the frame/image, so I am just listening . . . something along those lines . . . or perhaps colors or symbols), we might come to a form/at of some type.

    As for feedback, I noticed some had earbuds/headphones on.  In this case, there can be no feedback through the node, as the headphones don’t put sound into the space.  An aspect of this extended acoustic I have been working with, is that each room has it’s own spectral/sonic fingerprint.  What is fun is to let the sound ring in the room, and then the flavors (acoustics) of the physical spaces combine/recombine/blend as the sound moves through the nodes.

    What would be nice would be to replicate this on the visual side of things as well.  So, that Dr. Who tunnel affect, with cameras looking into displays, ad infinitum.  But, this requires some coordination.  Yesterday we were connected one-to-many/many-to-one, all my stuff went to everybody and everybody’s content came to me.  One possibility would be to connect one-to-one in a series, making a loop.  So we have this loop which is a continuos video tunnel.  Just a thought.

    In closing, sorry this goes on and on, TinyChat (meh), not enough control as regards routing and you are set into proprietary compression/packaging schemes.  As I am coming to understand ‘glitch’ (and this HAS been a great experience) there needs to be a breakdown due to pushing the system beyond it’s normal functioning.  We can’t push TinyChat (by dropping the sampling rate or lowering the frame rate), unless the Flash interface can somehow be compromised.

    BTW, fun stuff yesterday.




    because i don’t know how to learn my lesson, lost a post in progress after computer froze, and then lost post in progress again after computer froze again. so take 3. for better/worse, anticipating this one to be more fragmented and briefer as a result. gltich begetting glitch, though mine coming from lack of patience at this point. was already late in the session on account of a wonked connection. supraconductor indeed.

    session 2 come and gone. tinychatted again. less noisy. nina simone aphex twin the cure r kelly mariah. darkening of rooms videos and visuals of the outside solid blocks of color train from windows and from screens. edwina giving directives without a camera or a mic. all from text. text i forgot to save, so unless someone else saved it, lost. ryan recorded, have some as well, of which much less so less painful than last time. more direction this time, but still feeling need more direction/structure to push limits.

    other platforms, orchestrations, compositions, etc. re tinychat, yes it has its limitations. as you say not enough control regarding “routing and you are set into proprietary compression/packaging schemes” (as noted by nanotran), but don’t know of another that allows for more control. if you know of one, all ears. like tinychat for free, not requiring registration, quantity of video logins at any given time (up to 12 now i think), can use on multiple devices.

    like nanotran’s idea re the visual tunnel effect (which also results in sound feedback/tunnel effect as well).
    as i understand it, would require minimum of 2 devices (= 2 cameras that don’t conflict) per person, so each person is connected to 2 persons. again, i think for the sake of ease, tinychat would be good testing ground. basically each person sets up a tinychat room. (e.g. ,,, etc.). and then we plug in like so:
    also, could effect with each person logged into 3 devices like so:


    or effect each person logged into 4 devices like so:

    (now take a minute to recover from the dazzlement of my technical drawing skills.)

    also like the idea of the tunnel effect not just to make for the visual/audio/tech phenomenon, but would offer a different social framework. so games of telephone, etc. enacted visually, aurally, textually. in effect, creating a supraconductor with a supraconductor. if there is a way for each participant to record/capture their interaction during the experiment and then we share after the fact, we could also experience in the postgame playback where/when things get wonked. would also be interesting to see how slow/fast the pulse is sent through the interwebs. so say, if each participant starts a record (preferably audio+video) at the same atomic clock time and ends it at the same atomic clock time, we can edit them together side by side and measure the time differentials, etc.

    to guarantee the circle’s completed and get rooms set up in advance, etc. would need to get a confirmed number of people prior to the experiment. if they are set up as public tinychat rooms, not a big deal so long as A stays connected to B and H, doesn’t matter who goes through the revolving door. And actually might be interesting for others to be able to revolve through these doors…

    also, each participant can come with something they want to try under these conditions. they can be carried out one at a time or all at the same time, or H starts something and D starts something. with that said, a “central chatroom” (that doesn’t need video/audio) may/may not be useful.

    leading to ideas of games, gaming, game theory, structures. flocking.

    back to today’s session 2. what i liked about today was the thinking more of visuals. the elements on the screen. the color blocking directive making our videoboxes into pixels (which we are to one another). the pixelation of the video from the train youtube versus the less pixelated video of the camera real-time train outside ryan’s window. the more people log onto tinychat, the smaller our videoboxes get and appear to be elements of a larger composition, like in a photo mosaic! can we effect this… um, would we want to effect this?


    thinking of ways to work with notions of supposed shared spacetime but also tinker with the strange idealization of hybrid space and telepresence that isn’t just about overloading the system and or just sitting in front of the computer.
    don’t know if that entirely makes sense. but for instance, would like to try working off of mobile devices that are logged into the same tinychat room and synchronicity comes in a simple action and followed/recorded online as such that is quotidien, but also on some level time-based. so for instance, the “score” would be at the same time logging into the same chatroom, going to the store, buying a beer and drinking it in your kitchen. not such a strange thing to do at 6pm in the evening, a little stranger to do (for some) at 7am. by virtue of the light (ideally… unless you are living in the 3pm darkness of northern latitudes…), one can perceive within the chatroom the timezone differentials, but in the kitchen, perhaps less so. and unless you are “in” on this quasi-flash crowd, the flash crowd element is totally lost on the cashier who completes the transaction with the person buying a 6-pack at 7am. perhaps you wonder why i think something like this would be interesting… because it’s a confrontation of telepresent time with astronomical and what is termed “civil time.” speaks to the weareinthesameroombutnotinthesameroom. and would be curious of how the experience is for each person (strange, interesting, challenging, boring, insert qualifier here, insert non-qualifier here).

    well this ended up being a lot longer than expected. heh. in the end, maybe for the best take 1 and 2 got lost in the digital stutter. my poor computer. also speaking of stutters, “effect” seems to be my word of the day.


    Ryan ⊥ Dunn

    Kyoung— Thank you much for your thoughts. I’m compiling a list of experiments to attempt today and would like to incorporate/fold in these thoughts. I am also interested in the ability of these mediums to present ‘mere appearance the face of assumed realities’, if I can speak in such an un-quotidian manner… That which lies beyond appearance, which confounds supposition, and breaks the limitations of the medium in veracity and temporality. I’ll expand on this later, once we begin the session. In furtherance of that I want to second the encouragement for folks to try to bring more than one device to the table, and if you’re able to join us at Tritrangle in person, we will have expanded opportunity to effect these kinds of ideas as we will have many devices in simultaneous space!

    See you all soon!




    session two, takes more than two, how much to do with text only, how to give directives, to see and not be seen. an exercise intended on simulated co-location by blending spaces, physically, matching vantage points, lighting, making uniform. if the awkwardness of never looking in the eye is overwritten by all the participants, if no one fails, if everyone is able to type while looking at the third eye, by making a kind of contact that is the usual contact in any other context. overwrite the limitation by overlooking it as a crowd. lip-synch. the mouth moving is not the voice singing. turn off here, go dark there. a train that starts in a continues in b, pixelated, starts over.

    at one moment most of us had the same posture, holding our chin with our hand. choreography.

    alone, listening a robotic voice said to be not on purpose. he told it to me only. i was the only there.  i alone dont make it true. it took session 3.

    session 3 of dogs and walks directives given to pick up apples. i myself a robot voice i could not hear as such. record and replay and try to make you one too. bring you in with me. still i heard myself as myself, unaffected to myself, howcanthatbeeeee. a chinatownloft hosting a rapping robot repeated all it heard and rhymed it, the  ”tell me where to go” robotic voice of ryan became the robots voice. to the beat. internet, power down. i heard they played a game…

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