Premature Jazz musings (ported from facebook)

 

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This topic contains 1 reply, has 2 voices, and was last updated by sauravdube sauravdube 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #241
    rosa_menkman
    rosa_menkman
    Key Master
    • In a 1988 interview, trombonist J. J. Johnson said, “Jazz is restless. It won’t stay put and it never will”.

      “jazz is a construct” or category that, while artificial, still is useful to designate “a number of musics with enough in common to be understood as part of a coherent tradition.”

      Travis Jackson has also proposed a broader definition of jazz :…
      qualities such as “swinging,” improvising, group interaction, developing an ‘individual voice,’ and being ‘open’ to different musical possibilities.”

      _____The avant-garde and free jazz idioms permit, even call for, abandoning chords, scales, and rhythmic meters.

      Did you ever consider glitch linguistix / glitch artists expressing themselves in connection to Jazz Music traditions?

      Just started browsing this one:http://books.google.nl/books/about/Landing_on_the_Wrong_Note.html?id=4OoBSl_pUYcC&redir_esc=y

      Landing on the Wrong Note

       

       

      Play Damage I think it could be a way to begin. I am always suspicious of the surrealist’s faith in the subconscious and automatic writing, so I am a bit suspicious of the claims of improvisational jazz. It takes an amazing musician (like John Coltrane, post-1964) to truly unlearn and begin again. Most improvisation still falls back on learned/prepared tropes (just like most automatic writing is not all that novel). My faith is in algorithmic constraints and aleatory (a la Cage). dice never fall back on tropes. Having said that, all of these performances ( http://lab404.com/video/pop/ ) are “improvisational.” But I don’t try to improvise. Physical exhaustion and monotony and my inability to play the same thing force the improvisation upon me.
      Rosa Menkman My knowledge of Jazz is veryyy limited – but yes I can agree with your skepticism towards free Jazz / automatic writing and the claim of abandoning idioms (conceptually, I dont find that the most interesting in any case – and somehow … can easily dive into a cliche culture – am i allowed to say that?)
      However, the idea of moving away from known arrangements, yet not claiming to have a completely new idiom (just a new voice), the building away/opening up sounds very familiar to me.
      Wow the pop mantra looks intense.
      Rosa Menkman Hmm. I also have to think a bit more about the distinction between voice vs language.
      Maybe its not quite clear what I am on about, I think I am on a thinker bender –>
      I am writing a paper in which i try and outline
      (vr-nky-lr)-s: (Vernaculars)
      I imagine a gradient within the (algorithmic&&aesthetic) vernacular-s:
      slang -Jargon (insert fork here?) idiom – cliche
      Of course how you read certain utterances is based on context/perspective.
      dont know if this made anything clearer. I hope it will because I need to finish some primary statements soon.
      Rosa Menkman Hmm maybe I could have ported this to the Wurkinggroup. Dont know how relevant it is for your current work there. /ramble
      Agam Andreas Is Henry Flint Jazz or part of John Cage circle? I think Flint went a very special way in ‘improvising’ his performances, listen to New American Ethnic Music, Volume 1: You are my Everlovin’ + Celestial Power, this ‘freeform’ music touched me very strongly in its ability to go ‘beyond’ ‘learned tropes’. Resulting in ‘freeing’ exceptations about the reception of its musical message. Further more I think it is very dangerous to try to transpose ‘glitchyness’ to ‘free jazz’ especially for an audience not completely acquinted to both of these terms. Glitch in jazz cannot never exsist as it would be immediately musically corrected by ‘skilled’ musiciens, for instance Sun Ra Arkestra and his circle. I am although curious in how other musiciens ( i am one) see this. The connection between ‘glitch’ and music can definitively be find more easely in the ‘noise’ scene as in thus field the wish to redefine several musical parameters is more obvious. 

      Just my two cents, Andreas
      Play Damage I love “You Are My Everlovin’”. Heck, I love 1950s orchestrated Miles Davis. I like certain tropes. I like AC/DC. But as far as my art practice goes, I’m just distrustful of “getting into the zone” and “going for it.” Rosa, I think that improvisational jazz musicians start with a musical system, and their improvisations are ingenious variations within that system. Listening to out-takes of Miles Davis modal solos on “Sketches of Span,” it’s obvious why he selected the ones he selected. But even in the out-takes (the ones he didn’t select), there are some very exciting moments. It’s just that the entire out-take solo didn’t hold together as well as the one he chose. But you have to be a very accomplished musician to even wind up with anything interesting. I think of Pharoah Sanders saxaphone solos on some of those John Coltrane tracks — very wild, but not very interesting. Rosa, is jazz music a “language”? Not in the sense that I am tracking. But it’s related semantically. “I asked myself if music were not the unique example of what might have been — if there had not come the invention of language, the formation of words, the analysis of ideas — the means of communication between one spirit and another.” – proust
      Rosa Menkman OK i copy this into the group, I think event though very immature questions maybe, interesting non the less. so maybe it goes somewhere sometime.
    • This topic was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by rosa_menkman rosa_menkman.
    #1160
    sauravdube
    sauravdube
    Participant

     

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